tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 10, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PDT
introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. he said to me that when you become a grandfather you fall in love all over again. and that's what happened. we got -- hillary and i have our granddaughter for three days. last night my granddaughter, 9 1/2 months old, for the first time wli walked in a room she said oh, there's your granddad
and she turned around and pointed at me. that was worth more than anything anybody had said or done for me or paid me or anything else. everything you said about it is true. >> yeah. >> last night my granddaughter spoke to me in mandrin. >> that's jenna's daughter. i believe it. good morning. it's friday july 10th. >> with us this morning, mike barnicle is here. should we do the ovation thing? >> i thinking we're fortunate to have the multitalented people that come in here and join us. we have this vast studio audience. so why not when you introduce them why not a round of applause for our guests? >> loud up in the balcony, too. >> mike barnicle. >> thank you. thank you. >> so sad. you actually had members of the panel applaud. >> i always clap. yeah. >> you're a clapper? >> i'm a clapper. it makes me stress wld no one is
clapping. >> fill the space? >> yeah. >> how about senior political white house correspondent for huffington post sam stein is here. >> still clapping. >> yeah. i do that, too. >> former communications director for president george w. bush co-host of "the view," nicole wallace. >> why are we doing this? >> i don't know. >> host of politics nation president of the national action network, the reverend al sharpton is here. and -- >> i prefer amens. >> okay i'll take an amen. >> and managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halpern. >> oh, my god! mark, that was choreographed. >> by barnicle. >> yes. where is he? >> he's right over there. >> he's over at the kids' table. >> the confederate flag is set to come down in south carolina in just a few hours. yesterday in front of a tlong of press backed by dozens of politicians and with family members of those killed at mother emanuel church 23 days
ago, nicky haley made good on her promise to remove the flag. joining us now from columbia south carolina, it's msnbc's craig melvin. what's it going to be like down there today? >> you know what? i'll tell you what it's going to be short. this is this ceremony is the same as 2000 whether a handful of cadets took the flag that was flying atop the state house dome and they moved it to the location behind me the citadel cadets aren't in school right now. they're using a detail from the department of public safety, the same detail i'm told that, was used at the funeral of clemente pinckney. it's going to take less than ten minutes. the flag will come down. they'll take it inside the state house and then go to a museum nearby. a lot of folks not surprised that the flag is coming down. a the love folks, though are stunned at the speed with which this is all happening. the south carolina general
assembly, like a lot of local legislative bodies or state legislative bodies i should say, not known for acting swiftly. this was very different. again, as you mentioned, governor haley make going on that promise yesterday. signing the bill that was sent to her in just three days. using nine different pens one pen for each of the victims. take a look and listen. >> with that i am proud to say that bill has been signed. i do want to also acknowledge these nine pens are going to each of the nine families of the emanuel nine. >> again, the flag expected to come down shortly after 10:00 a.m. the flagpole itself also expected to be removed early this afternoon. however, i got to tell you,
there is this misconception out there that this is going to be it for the confederate battle flag in south carolina. the reality i'm driving in from the airport last night and there is this dodge ball on the left side of the highway about ten minutes out flying the confederate battle flag proudly. there have been a number of folks who decided to use this as an opportunity to show that they aren't going to take this lying down. some folks still upset about this. >> it will be removed via armored car to a multimillion dollar display to a museum over there. what is the emotional aspect of the story down there today? >> you know it's flown here for 50 years. there are not a lot that thought it would ever come down. most people resigned themselves to the fact this is going to be it. because that 2000 debate i was here it was so gut wrenching
for a lot of folks. it was deeply personal. rallies and protests on a regular basis. folks would be out here in front of the flag screaming at each other. weekends or middle of the day during the week. i mean the i was bizarre. so no one wanted to relive all of that. and then with what happened in that church basement a few weeks ago when a lot of folks took a step back and realized that the flag did not mean what a lot of folks, perhaps thought it meant, then i think a lot of people here in south carolina all over this country had one of these call to jesus moments and realized, okay from this tragedy there can come some good. and we'll see that good shortly after 10:00 a.m. >> all right. craig melvin, we'll be watch ago long with you. >> reverend listening to craig and watching that piece, you can feel and hear the pull of history on both sides of this debate.
and i'm wondering, we had an amazing confluence of events. you had the elements of the families forgiving. you've had president obama giving arguably his best speech as a president, offering the concept of grace to the people there and to the country at large. where does it stand now in your mind? we still have a battle flag flying ten minutes outside of the airport en route into downtown charleston, battle flags throughout the south, we know that. >> i think that people will express their views and express how they feel on their own private property. and as long as we have a country. i think the real emotional and political statement of removing this from the state grounds is that we cannot any way, shape or form act as though we condone it. taxpayers, the public pays for the state grounds.
the protest has always been you can say what you want in your home and in your private institutions. but we're not going to pay to be offended by a symbol that represents slavery and lynching and the like. and a symbol that represents people that really fought against the united states government. i think that's the victory. this fight since 200 o0, in 2004 when i ran for president, a representative and senator joe neil who helped fight this fight had me run against the flag. that was part of my campaign. and i was surprised at how resistant a lot of people were. they're saying no this is about heritage. like that's a proud heritage. i think it's a great moment. but it wouldn't have gotten there, i think, one, we have to be honest. this is a reaction to this massacre. and the way the families and the president handled it. this was a martin luther king
moment. to rise above the pain and bring the nation to a higher moral place really shamed a lot of people into saying we got to do something here. had they acted in another way, i think it would have been us against them. i think they shamed the country by doing a king moment of taking it to a higher ground. >> i have a question. this is not to diminish the significance of the flag coming down which obviously has been something years and years in the making boycotts a lot of political struggle. i'm wondering from your vantage point if you're worried a little bit this very symbolic but important gesture will mask what are greater public policy fights that you and the rest of the african-american community want to see, voting rights health care things that those people in south carolina struggled for that will probably be swept under the rug after this debate over the flag is over. >> no i'm not a little worried. i'm very worried. when you look at the fact that we have serious voting rights
questions in south carolina serious questions about how we're going to deal with health care and criminal justice disparities, don't forget that we are dealing with the walter scott case right there in charleston where reverend pinckney and i did a prayer vigil two months before he was killed. i hope but i don't have a lot of faith that people think we took the flag down so let's not talk about voter see prugsuppression, let's not talk about the employment problem or the criminal justice system. we cannot let taking the flag down answer everything. this is important. it is symbolic. but if it is used to mask the substantive debates, then i think it becomes something that backfires on those of us that want this flag down. >> can i ask you something? a lot of the debates we thought about race in the last 12 to 24 months have been polarizing. do you see the leadership of republicans like nicky haley and then jenny thorn, a state rep
who made one of the most impassioned remarks against the heritage movement do you see it is left political? >> i think strom thurmond his family owned slaves. and his son got up and made an impassioned speech and came on smi show. my show. when i saw paul thurmond and i saw senator horn it took a lot of the rancor out of the debate. i'm sure we're going to debate and fight over voting id and other issues. i think what they did in this time of such divisive and polarizing language is raise the language. i don't think that we're going to find common ground. when i went to the funerals, i went foifrt threeto the first three and the second one the governor hugged me. i told her i'll be marching on her again. but i think what we have seen in
this atmosphere is to take away a lot of the rancor. i think that in the time of a donald trump that's very important. how we debate i think is going to be a situation. again, i think the families in charleston set that tone. >> there's no question about it. for me that moment 36 hours after the murder of their loved ones where they stood face to a tv screen with the shooter and to a person one after another forgave him, i sat there slack jawed. that set the tone. >> looking at the killer. >> looking at him. >> looking at the killer. to look at someone that took your loved one and said i forgive you, i mean you have to remember people on the right and the left particularly in south carolina, are bible thumping fundamentalists. how do they look at that and then come back with that kind of rhetoric?
i think herve to takeeverybody had to take a step back and say i have to look at this different. now the policies the devil and pun intended is going to be in the details. >> that's right. the flag again comes down at 10:00 this morning in columbia south carolina. we'll obviously have that for you live here on msnbc. let's move to politics now. former president bill clinton and george w. bush shared a stage as we showed you a minute ago in dallas last night. they were on the campus of southern methodist university for the graduation of their presidential leadership scholars. the two discussed a range of topics including the possibility of another bush-clinton matchup in 2016. >> i know jeb and i'm confident in secretary hillary will you know elevate the discourse. i can't attest to their surrogates. i can attest to this surrogate. i'm not going to be a surrogate. but it's -- >> we got a lot of tough decisions to make. that's all i really care about beside i know who i'd like to
win. the more important thing for america is we know what the heck we're deciding on and make a pretty good decision. >> the joint appearance between the two former presidents came after a day in which candidates clinton and bush traded jabs over bush's recent remarks with people needing to work longer hours. hillary clinton said anyone who believes that americans are not working hard enough hasn't met enough american workers so when bush replied, anyone who discounts 6.5 million people stuck in part time work and seeking full time jobs has not listened to working americans. this came from a sitdown with editorial boards on wednesday. here's what he said later on. >> my aspiration for the country is 4% growth as far as the eye can see. we have to be a lot more productive. full force work participation that's to rise from the modern lows. it means that people neat to
work longer hours and through their productive gain more income for their families. that's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in. under this administration they made it tough for people to work. this overtime rule is not creating more opportunities for higher income for people. people will work less. obamacare forced businesses to hire people for 30 hours rather than 40 hours. nancy pill osi and barack obama think that's great. now they're free to pursue their dreams. i think people want to work harder to have more money in their own pockets, not to be dependent upon government. >> so this quote work longer hours, as i watch the full quote, anybody can go online and listen to it employers need to provide more hours for people working. is that way you read it? >> i hate these things on both sides. and, you know i think the clinton campaign is going to rue having done this because she's going to say some things that are sloppy or careless or
imprecise and republicans will jump all over it. it so diminishes our politics and press with all due respect to this program and those on it play into this. we know what jeb bush meant. but i think both sides are stupid to jump on these. they should focus on real differences and not the made up things. >> there is a reason that we played the full context. >> i think it is great for jeb bush. hillary clinton wants to have a debate about the effect of underemployment in america from obamacare. i would say bring it on. that is one of the most devastating consequences for small business owners in america. if jeb bush can be their champion and voice that, is not a partisan issues. there are plenty of democrats that are small business owners. it is the engine of recovery in america and the sector of the economy where it's not necessary unemployment but underemployment and if jeb can be their champion, i think it will be a huge -- it's obviously where it is at a policy level which is where everything starts for jeb, but the politics of that are
superb for jeb bush. >> and saying that twitter back and forth with the firsthand -- hand to hand combat we've seen between hillary clinton and jeb bush. >> i actually happen to agree that the comment was taken out of context. it's very clear he was talking about underemployment and about part time workers there. at least as i read it and clarifications make the case. i agree with mark that it's kind of sillily to take the comments and run with them as some political football. i also happen to think that the effects of the employer mandate and the health care have been dramatically overstated. employers haven't actually been dive bombed. >> that's the response she should have made. that was the debate. >> sure. i also happen to think that you're going to have 4% growth as aspirational as that may be is not exactly a sound policy. i'm just saying i'm going to have 4% growth. >> that is why we need to have the debate. he needs to have to outline how are you going to get us to 4% growth and the debate about
whether or not there has been, and i agree with you, i think it's overstated with obamacare has or has not done in terms of the underemployment. but let's debate that out. a bernie sanders-bush debate or hillary debate or with bush or walker. i think they lose. >> trump? hello? >> who? >> i haven't been trumped. >> it's coming for you, too. still ahead, new york city will set brat the u.s. women's national team's world cup title with a ticker tape parade through the canyon of heroes. before that team member megan rapinoe will join us at the table. an incredible story of four brothers all switched at birth. a man find out his fraternal twin is really the identical twin of someone else. >> i read that last night. >> it's an unbelievable story. we'll be here to talk about it. but first, stop us if you heard this one. the pope walks into a burger
king yshgs the king, why the pontiff had to make a stop at the fast food chain on his latin american trip. what did he order? we'll tell you when we come back. ♪ quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service watch us deliver. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
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from usa today, several major american cities have seen a dramatic rise in homicides during the first half of 2015 after years of declining violent crime. murders are up 33% or more in baltimore, new orleans, and st. louis. homicides in chicago have climbed 19% with shootings up 21% so far this year. in all the cities, the increase is disproportionately impacting poor and predominantly black and latino neighborhoods. what do you make of the numbers? >> i'm absolutely outraged by them. i think that when you look at chicago tomorrow their burying a 7-year-old kid.
i talked to reverend ackery last night. we work with them. when you have this kind of gun violence and, yet, there has been no real formula to deal with it and there's enough to go around from community activists to clergy all the way to government, i think this is something that ditsindicts all of us. it's getting worse, not better. just as much as we're outraged with police misconduct we must be as outraged about the misconduct in the streets, including the gun laws. but people because guns are there don't make you get up and shoot and a 7-year-old kid is dead. >> it's an entire -- i mean the crime runs from one range to another. the case of a 7-year-old being buried this chicago, the 7-year-old's father who was the intended target of that shooting has been arrested multiple time. the justice system is never really dealt with him. never really put him away where he ought to be put away.
and the other aspect of it is this ever occurred if multiple shootings that occur every weekend in cities like chicago, boston, if it ever occurred in a largely white neighborhood, the national guard would be in the streets. >> that's my point. i hear the story from the police chief in chicago about the multiple arrests of the father. but if this guy was a gangster in another neighborhood, you still wouldn't say the 7-year-old kid, oh, it's his father's fault. the fact it's happening in certain comments and there is not an outrage is insulting and offensive. i think that we got to come to grips with our lives matter on all sides of this because it wouldn't be tolerated in other communities. >> real quick, taking your example of chicago where it's terrible and you wake up every morning with another story in the paper about how many people have been shot and killed. they have some of the strictest gun laws in the country. it's not the gun laws. >> it's all of that. it's some of the gun laws but
clearly chicago, you deal with those guns that are brought in outside. i think father just started a lawsuit on. that you also have to deal with the inside culture. you have to deal with how the policing is in terms of how the community policing is or is not working. there's enough as i said blame to go around. and you got to deal with the fact that there's not the outrage both in the community and outside. two years ago i took an apartment. there we go every week and try to work with it. and i think that there are too many people blaming, you know the finger pointing. it's you. it's you. you ought to be doing more rather than everybody coming together. i think that at this 7-year-old's funeral tomorrow there is going to be a call for. that we have to stop the blame game and take blame. >> here is another story. "new york times" today, more than four million syrians fled their country's civil war with more than a million leaving in
just the past ten months according to new figures from the united nations. inside the country an additional 7.6 million syrians have been displaced by the fighting which is now in its fifth year. a region filled with refugees. >> longest and largest crisis in modern history. we have entire generation of kids that are not educated or vaccinated. it's one of the gravest human catastrophes. >> it's like post apocalyptic. towns are completely abandoned. >> turkey jordan and iraq even iraq sustaining and absorbing the four million refugees. >> that's a huge humanitarian crisis. i think we'll look back on this ten years from now and wonder what the hell we were thinking. >> you mean the united states government was thinking? zblint . >> international community. just like rwanda. we'll look back and saying -- i'm not saying this is justifying a huge military component dshgs we really do all we could to help the people that
were displaced? >> we didn't. he can drew a red line and didn't enforce it. literally people raising entire families, children, in refugee cam weapons no school no education. that generation is very ripe to be radicalized themselves. >> absolutely. >> the humanitarian crisis that will become a global security crisis. >> for another generation. "the washington post," pope frances was in bolivia for the second stop of the three nation swing through latin america where he used the strongest language to date on issues like social justice and the environment. the pope called out world leaders for their coward he is in defending the planet from exploitation. he apologized for violence that happened. during the day the pope at one point needed to change his vestments before mass. so what better place to do it than the local burger king? the fast food restaurant in the
city of santa cruz but up white sheets in the windows to give the pontiff a little privacy while he changed. did he get the whopper or no? >> i like what he said upon entering the burger king is it true that special orders don't upset you? and he put on the white tunic. >> i hope he hate something. don't go to aburger keng and not -- >> he seems like a healthy guy. >> he is the greatest. he is the greatest. >> i don't think he would have eaten anything. >> when is the last time you had burger king? >> i love it. california is big. and we have jock in the box, too. >> they make a good salad. >> who orders a salad at burger king? >> five different types of meat. >> what do you get at burger king? >> you are not the man i married. salad. come on. coming up on "morning joe," he's surging in the polls. there may be a new hurdle for
donald trump to qualify for the presidential debate coming up next month. we'll tell what you that is next. new york state is reinventing how we do business by leading the way on tax cuts. we cut the rates on personal income taxes. we enacted the lowest corporate tax rate since 1968. we eliminated the income tax on manufacturers altogether. with startup-ny, qualified businesses that start, expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs.
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time this morning. there are new questions this morning about presidential candidate donald trump's ability to make it on the stage of the republican debate. fox clarified a requirement for entry into the first debate. besides finishing in the top ten in the polls, candidates must file their financial disclosure forms on time. the move raises the stakes for trump who is not yet revealed his full financial assets. trump tells "the washington post" he'll meet the requirement due next wednesday and in another interview last night, trum whop not commit to backing the eventual republican nominee. >> i mean look i'm not a politician. every politician immediately is supposed to say absolutely absolutely. i have to see who wins. and, frankly, i think we're going to win. i really think our message is much better. i will make unbelievable trade deals. i'll bring jobs back to our country. i'll bring security back to our country. i really think we're going to win. i watch everybody. i don't see their message.
you can say what you want. i know you like him and i like him, too, rick perry, did he a lousy job on the border. what a horrible job he did. worse than him is jeb bush. jeb bush is a disaster in so many different ways. i have to see, shawn, who wins. >> mark let's dig into this a little bit. donald trump is going to be on that stage. there is no way fox keeps him off the stage. front page of the times, there is a joint talking about trump as potential problem now but also maybe a third party candidate down the road. do you think there is any truth to him running as a third party candidate? >> no. i think it's unlikely he do. that but the threat that he might is one thing that republicans have to take seriously. if someone like trump ran as a third party candidate, even if he wasn't on the ballot in all 50 states it would kun into republicans' ability to win the general election. that is one dimension that makes
him so difficult. they want him to be part of the republican team, us about but they don't want him to represent the republican team. he is giving the speech in arizona on immigration. i think it will be the dominant political eventst weekend. as long as he can draw big crowds and press attention and as long as the poll numbers stay shy high this is a problem for the republican party to deal w trump has a message that appeals to a lot of people. >> what is hilarious about that piece is the underlying thees sis republicans don't want to push back too hard for fear of offending a lot of voters that like trump. trump is the most hated candidate in the race. every poll bears this out. maybe chris christie on one or two of the polls. trump is basically reviled by huge portions of the republican base. if republican elder statesmen are so afraid of pushing back on this guy, what are they supposed to do? this isn't nancy reagan they're going after. i think they would earn a lot -- >> that doesn't apply to jeb bush. he's been in a brawl with him for ten days. >> jeb is a little bit better. he follows -- >> i mean you know trump went
after jeb's wife and jeb punched right back. i don't think that's true about the top tiered republican candidates. i don't think there is any fear. >> there is a piece that they're quoting that they were afraid that they would get voted back. >> i don't think that played out on the trail. i think when trump punches jeb, he punches him right back. i think trump is a gift. trump is everything that the modern republican party isn't and can't be. and, you know i think they -- >> when are they going to stand up and say exactly that? >> rick perry did. he gave a speech. >> sort of. >> but i think that all of them i wanted to seat democrats come out. i think hillary and jeb should have punched harder. i think the reality, though is that if we assume jeb bush is the front-runner wednesday and if hillary is the candidate, the last time we had a bush and a clinton, a third party candidate helped put clinton in the white house and that was perot. so i would love to see trump -- >> trump can't even get his own paperwork in on time.
the notion he can get himself on the ballot is ludicrous. >> trump is not running for a cause. you either run for president or -- >> yes, he is donald trump. >> you're trying to promote certain causes and make sure it's there or because you think you can win. trump is his own cause. that's it. and i think as long as he can get the attention he's there. he has no reason to invest in trying to do a third party. but as long as we're covering him and different shows and as long as he's getting attention, he's there. many of you turn the spotlight to something real he's going to back and trying to rebuild what i don't think he'll be able to rebuild and that's his business. >> the piece in the "wall street journal" is called "donald trump's appeal and limits." she says that he makes things uncomfortable for candidates that will devise ways of dealing with i. just by waking in a room he lowers the tone. a special brabd of irresponsibility may prove infectious. reporters love him because he's
colorful dramatic walking, talking. he controls the daily agenda. that will lessen as the novelty diminishes. think how powerful he be would if he had a longer memory or could take tough stands without maligning people. blow hards don't wear well. that is peggy nunian. >> you know what is really interesting about trump as opposed to all the other candidates, i think, at least most of the candidates who i have seen personally trump gives access to the news immediate way the other candidates don't. trump comes into a room he's not surrounded by 15 handlers. he's not surrounded by people who say okay that's it. that's all the questions now. ten minutes up is. he'll sit there and talk to you for 45 minutes or an hour about anything. he'll say the crazy things. he'll say the irresponsible things. but for us in the media, i mean he's a man from heaven.
>> that's because it's mutually beneficial relationship. >> and because he's promoting himself. trump has come to my convention and got on television and called me a racist. i mean he wants a crowd. he's available because that's his point. >> yeah. >> and his only point. >> so mark if, this is a bubble as being suggested aren't table, what does it burst? it certainly pretty inflated at the moment. he's second in a lot of polls. second in two important states. >> look sam's right there is a limit on his support. peggy noonan says the same thing, he has a ceiling. but with 16 candidates if, can you hold on to 10% or 15% of support, that may be enough to be a player in the primaries. i disagree with you a little bit about his motivations. if he was here to selt business or sell himself, he'd be going about his life if a different way. i really do believe he thinks he'd be best president. really does think there are problems with the country. and an outsider message, a populous message, angry message has a lot of resonance with a certain sphere of the republican party that jeb bush and marco
rubio are not going to capture. >> all right. coming up next, another day, another deadline for iran. how long will the white house allow talks to play out in search of a nuclear deal? we're back after this. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberyy apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good. i like to bake. with at&t get up to $400 dollars in total savings on tools to manage your business. the tripadvisor you have always trusted for reviews book...! now checks over 200 websites to find the best price. book...! book...!
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and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. we're not going to sit at the negotiating table forever. we also recognize that we shouldn't get up and leave simply because the clock strikes midnight. we will not rush and we will not be rushed. >> how long are you going to distaken, mr. secretary? >> i just said this is not open ended. president obama made it very clear to me last night. you can't wait forever for the decision to be made. we know that. if the tough decisions don't get made we're absolutely prepared
to call an end in this process. >> andrea mitchell sneaking in one last question. john kerry speaking yesterday as it appears another deadline for nuclear talks with iran will come and go. joining the table, we have former state department senior adviser now the dean of johns hopkins school of advanced international studies, vali noxer. he said we're prepared to call an end to this process. do you believe the white house that john kerry is prepared to walk away from the deal? >> i don't think. so first of all, there are going to be a huge political cost for the failure of this deal. second obama and secretary kerry put a lot of capital on the table believing there is a deal that is possible and make compromises. now admitting that was a mistake is not good for them. secondly, the current situation is better for the united states than it is for iran. the more we drag out this thing, it's better for the u.s. they are on a freeze. they made an agreement in 2013.
the longer this continues, dwoent have anything to lose. these are self-imposed deadlines largely by congress that actually do not serve u.s. interests. >> what is your instinct on what is actually going on now? do you think that the house keeping details of this proposed deal are pretty much done and now the biggest issue is the political aspects of the deal? can they sell it to the ayatollah in tehran? can they sell it to the congress and the united states of america? how quickly will the sanctions be lifted? will political items like that? >> those are actually the larger items. in other words, the key right now is politics in both countries. the negotiators have to go home and sell the deal to their public and claim that they came out ahead or at least they did a good job. i don't think iranians feel that right now if they win back they said, you know we moth balled all of this. we gave them unlimited
inspections. but sanctions are not going to be really lifted for long time coming. or if the united states came back, john kerry came back and said we didn't get inspection any time anywhere. that they -- that actually really is the pressure on them. the technicality of the deal is all done. it is really the politics that is the problem. >> what is your sense of where the russians and the chinese are on this deal on holding it together? >> i think we are the real negotiators here. the rest are there as sort of window dressing that this is an international deal. this is a negotiation really between the united states and iran. these are the two parties that have to agree. in fact the chinese and the russians are ready to start business with the russian foreign minister. just yesterday said it is the west that is at fault for this deal not being concluded. they will negotiate with the united states for things they want in order to support or not support the deal. but the real crux of it is
between the u.s. and iran. >> do you think that if the american public was as engaged as the iranian public that it would be as unpopular here as it is there? if they're burning flags in iran over very reasonable requests from not just the u.s. but all the other negotiators such as inspections, i mean do you think that part of this is that the iranian public is so much more engaged in the pursuit for nub lar weaponization? >> it matters to iran a lot more than it matters to the u.s. it matters to -- >> nationalism? >> sort of nationalism. it changes iran's economy. it has an impact on the future of the regime. for the united states this deal may be impact one election cycle. it doesn't change the united states. but the majority of the iranian public wants a deal. the question is what sort of -- >> well they want nuclear capability. they don't want a deal. >> they don't want to come out humiliated. they don't want to come out in the negotiation and you came back empty handed. the demonstrations you see on
the street are of the hard-liners, of iran's tea party. and some of it is actually staged and encouraged exactly to send a signal to john kerry and the united states to say, look this is not a cake walk for us. we do have a constituency back home. this actually strengthens the hand of iran's foreign minute stoer say, look i don't have any room to move. look at my streets. look at the pictures. >> what could be part of the final package that would cause you to say this isn't the united states' interests? >> we have to have -- to be able to inspect and verify. this is what we put at the table. we made compromises like you don't need to dismantle. you can moth ball. but this doesn't need to be a permanent deal. it can be for 15 to 25 years. but everything really hinges on the united states being comfortable with the facts. >> what would you be comfortable or not comfortable with regarding inspection that's might come out of this deal? >> we have to have unfeddered inspections by the international agency. we have to be able to know that
every element that they signed on to is verifiable to our satisfaction. and we're setting those parameters now. that could include military sides. it would include being able to be comfortable with what the past activities were. ultimately, you know this deal would only succeed if the u.s. congress if the american political establishment, the american public are comfortable. there is no point in signing a deal that is going to unravel six months from now or going to unravel once you have a new president. that is a waste of time. >> what does israel do if there's no deal? >> i think israel will be very happy with the deal we signed in 2013 to continue indefinitely. largely because it keeps iran where it is right now with no progress going forward. i mean if they were really sitting in a closed door room and say drag it out, drag it out for another year why are you putting up these deadlines? i think that will be the best outcome for them is to just keep this conversation going for a
while longer. >> you said when we were talking this deal is now too big to fail remains to be seen what's in it. we appreciate you being here with your perspective. thank you so much. vali nasr. next, we turn from high stakes international nuclear negotiations to this -- [ beep ] ariana grande now apologizing for remarks she made in a four minute video where she said she hates america and hates americans. very important update. mr. nasr we expect you to be at the table for that conversation as well. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ it took tim morehouse years to master the perfect lunge. but only one attempt to master depositing checks at chase atms.
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now for an update on donutgate. ariana grande apologized after tmz released security footage from a california donut shop appearing to show the 22-year-old sing ehrliching donuts left on top of a counter and saying she hates america. [ beep ] >> i hate america. >> i've actually never been prouder to be american to be honest with you. advance wezs we made in the past couple months and the progressive things going on i've never been prouder of this country actually. seeing a video of yourself behaving poorly that you have no idea was taken is such a rude
awakening that you don't -- it's like you don't know what to do. i was so disgusted with myself. i shoved my face in pillow and wanted to disappear. but instead of that, i'm going to come forward and own up to what i did and take responsibility. >> a clip from the blare witch project. you ever see that movie? >> can i ask you a question because you're so in tune that we're part of the culture that we're a part of. what is the connection between licking a pink frosted donut and hating america? >> her big thing is obesity. >> what was she doing in a donut shop? >> she was on an undercover mission to irrad indicate this. >> do you know who she? >> yeah. >> how -- >> we had a news clip about her yesterday. >> all right. so we led to this. we led with this very important story yesterday on "the view" or came second. i have to say for all american women this is my personal fantasy to lick a plate of
donuts. yeah. i love -- you know my love for donuts. and, so you know obviously she should lean in. i mean i don't know why she had to go all, you know negative on the donut and america. >> can we call an audible to the dunkin' donuts? >> we go get a donut. >> i want to see you do it. >> i once got nicole a chocolate covered cake donut. >> that's my favorite kind. >> and she went crazy. >> crazy. i went and got another one. they're very hard to get. >> this woman is hostile to donuts. you embrace the donut. >> right. that's why she weighs like as much as one of my arms. >> i walked by dunkin' donuts on 50th street yesterday and there is a big placard outside. they have a s'mores donuts. it's chocolate and graham cracker and marshmallow. >> i like a frosted cake donut. >> glad we had that. >> chocolate on chocolate. >> look at you. of course you don't like donuts.
>> is the apology video, is that scripted or straight from the heart? >> no, that was from the heart. >> it looks like it was produced by you know scorsese or something. it looked awesome. >> i don't think marty is going to be pleased with that assessment. >> come up why new technology is making it harder to track terror suspects online. we'll talk to a former top official with the fbi's cyber crime unit. plus in a few hours, the confederate flag will come down from clom columbia south carolina. so why is a fight breaking out on capitol hill in washington? and ted cruz's memoir a best-selling book. why is it nowhere to be seen on the "new york times" best seller list? chuck todd weighs in on that and a lot more in the political world whether we come back. you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you
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mr. speaker, had this confederate battle flag prevailed in war 150 years ago, i would not be standing here today as a member of the united states congress. i would be here as a slave. what exactly is the tradition of the confederate battle flag that we're supporting? is it slavery? rape? kidnap? treason? genocide? i stand here with chills next to it. >> that was democratic
congressman hakeem jeffries of new york. a fight over the future of the confederate flag unexpectedly broke out yesterday on capitol hill in washington not in south carolina. we'll get to that story in just a moment. welcome back to "morning joe" on a friday morning. mike barnicle is here. mark halperin nicole wallace, reverend al sharpton and sam stein around the tablinge. the confederate flag is set to come down in a matter of hours. backed by press and dozens of lawmakers lawmakers, nicky haley made good on her promise to remove the confederate flag. >> with that i am proud to say that the bill has been signed. i do want to also acknowledge these nine pens are going to each of the nine families of the emanuel nine. [ applause ] >> that was governor haley
yesterday. today now at 10:00 in south carolina highway patrol members will remove the flag that will be displayed at a nearby museum. in a sign of how quickly things can change the ncaa indicated for the first time in 15 years the state will be able to bid for a championship game. it could not before because of the flag. and other places around the country are following south carolina's lead. new orleans mayor has asked city council to declare four con fad rat statues public nuisances and taken down. joining us from columbia south carolina reverend goff, the interim pastor at emanuel. >> thank you for having me this morning. >> we can talk about the history that is about to take place there in colombia in a matter of hours. i want to start by asking now 23 days after that terrible day at your church how is your congregation doing? how are the familiares doing? >> the church and the families
are keeping the faith and because we're still going through a grieving process but most certainly in our grief we're encouraged by the outpouring of random act of xindnessxind kindness from aren't world and particularly here in the united states and we just want to say thank you to all of your viewers for being so encouraging, not only to mother emanuel and the nine families but in terms of all of that which we're trying to do by working together to make a difference not only in the state of south carolina but throughout this country. >> well we followed your lead reverend. we followed the lead of the families of your church and we followed the lead of that city of charleston. and we were talking about this just a little while ago on this show. we were all blown away by your performance and the grace you all showed in the media aftermath of this terrible terrible murders. where did you find the grace in those days? >> well it is in our faith and what we believe and that god has
created all of us equal. so whether or not we're black, white, regardless of gender or station in life we believe that we should love our neighbors and ourselves f we're to be forgiven, we must forgive. that does not mean we do not still cry, we do not still have stressful moments and that we're angry on some level. but good news is that our faith allows us to be our betterselves and that our faith allows us to overcome evil that is thrusted upon us. and for that, we're grateful for the encourage.ment of charleston and most certainly to our bishop franklin norris and the ame charles and charleston and south carolina itself. we must commend governor haley and we must commend the general assembly for moving forward in a positive fashion. >> i think that reverend goff and the leadership of the church and the nine families have to be
given again the credit of raising this to a level where i think that the flag is coming down because of the high moral tone reverend goff showed and the families showed. because if the reaction had been different, i think the -- all that followed would be different. i mean we've been struggling around this flag for a long time. reverend nelson that heads my chapter down there this has been over a decade. and the naacp and others. but i think the tragedy is what brought this about. but the reaction to the tragedy, i think, made everyone have to grow. and i was down there for the initial funerals and i was down there the day after it happened don't underestimate what bishop norris and reverend goff did because they made it very clear that we're not going to lower the standards of the church lower the standards of what these people died. they died in bible class. that's where this came. from the forgiveness came from what they were studying. they were in bible class.
they said we're not going to allow this to be anything other than. that i think it raised the moral tone that this country is indebted to them for. >> reverend goff you know, there is such a healing process involved here basically because you showed the country, reverend al spoke to this earlier, that your faith and other faiths are basically in the forgiveness business. that's what faith is all about. and, yet, you are surrounded still by a residue of battle flags that fly on private property in south carolina. it's not just south carolina. it's throughout the south and throughout other parts of the united states. so what lingering effect will there be do you think, on what happened in this one particular instance throughout rest of the country? >> well i think it's a tremendous opportunity not only for the state of south carolina but for this nation how we respond to things that are negative in our lives.
i think as we go forward together, we can achieve a number of things by moving in a positive direction. i think when we have public discourse, when we come into the arena of ideas, we must learn how to bring civility with us. it does not mean we'll always agree. but we always can find our common ground that we can move forward on. let me say this to your listening audience. young people and older individuals are looking forward to the kind of leadership that will allow us to be our betterselves. and not to be so negative about our country and about each other. so i believe that we have the access to doing better. when we know better we ought to do better. and we must take leadership not only in the political arena but also in our churches and our synagogues and in our neighborhoods. we must take back that which we have been given by our parents
and then we have to stop bashing those who are to protect us law enforcement. yes, we do have issues that we must resolve. but we must also remind ourselves that we're still community. we're still created by one god. and when we do this good things can happen. and i'm looking forward to the next chapter in the life of the state of south carolina which i'm a native of and this country in which we live. >> reverend goff as you look around new south carolina there are political forces and public opinion which sustained the flag flying up until now. i'm wondering as you observe your neighbors who felt differently and maybe some who still feel differently than do you on this issue, how are they handling all of this rapid change? >> well, i think we -- the rapid change that is coming one must come to grip with it. and, yet, still we must not take mud off the ground and rub it in their face. we must allow them to have an opportunity to grow in grace and to understand that that flag should have never been and now
that it is coming down we need to forge a path together not separate and apart. that does not mean we are always going to agree on the issues. but at least we can be respectful and show some level of sievecivility. >> take a look at nakt you have reverend goff with the confederate flag over his left shoulder. that flag is coming down in a couple of hours. reverend goff thank you for setting the tone as reverend sharpton said and for your leadership over the last several weeks. it's been remarkable to watch. >> well let me thank you and reverend sharpton and your panel for allowing us to come and to once again on behalf of bishop norris, thank you for encouraging south carolina and mother eemanuel and the congregation. >> thank you very much. the future of flag created a big
fight in the halls of congress. before that, there was a series of aggressive maneuvers from both sides. it thooz do with whether confederate flags can be displayed and sold when the federal government is involved. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell explains. >> reporter: congress is battling over new restrictions to remove confederate battle flags from federal property like national parks. democrats say there is no room for debate. >> don't republicans understand that the confederate battle flag is an insult to 40 million african-americans? >> reporter: this fight started when southern republicans tried to protect the use of confederate battle flags at government owned cemeteries where civil war dead are buried. >> to me it's a historical perspective. >> reporter: republican leaders tried to take that cemetery measure on to a major spedding bill. democrats were outraged and house speaker john bane area bankruptly canceled the vote. >> i actually think it's time for some adults here in the
congress to actually sit down and have a conversation about how to address this issue. i do not want this to become some political football. it should not. and so i would expect you'll see conversations in the coming days. >> do you yourself think they should be at federal cemeteries? >> number. >> joining us now from washington, nbc news political director moderator of "meet the press," chuck todd. what is going on here? >> this is john boehner not wanting to see his -- the entire republican party somehow tanltinted by what was a minority of the conference. but you have this weird balance, willie. you know they were very good about making sure it was a voice vote so there was no role call vote. because there are some southern conservative republicans who want to do -- who believe the right thing is to not have the federal government involved but
at the same time don't want to put that vote on record and make themselves potentially vulnerable at home politically on this issue. the flag in the past when there has been -- when there is compromise on the flag in georgia this cost some lawmakers in elections before so there is that fear. and at the same time the national republicans don't want there to be some public display of a chunk of the house of republican conference that they decide they can't afford to show people at home that they're not willing to stand up for the confederate flag. so, look boehner did the right thing for his party to sort of protect everybody involved here. i think that's why he's looking for a way out of this. >> do you have a problem with confederate flags on federal land if it's a cemetery? >> absolutely. i think that if it's federal land and it is any way federal land, whether it be cemetery whether it be military bases and all, you are dealing with public funds supporting something that
one, was something against this government and, two, represented the fighting to preserve slavery and lynching. and i think that people have the right to say i'm not going to subsidize something that was representative of enslaving my forefathers. i think that is an absolute proper position to take. i think with congressman jeffries and other said yesterday is absolutely the correct stand. >> all right. this popped up yesterday. we'll see where it heads. meanwhile, former presidents clinton and george bush sharing a stage in dallas. they were on the campus of southern methodist university for the graduation of their presidential leadership scholars. the two discussed a range of topics including the possibility of another bush-clinton matchup in 2016. >> i know jeb and i'm confident in secretary hillary will you know elevate the discourse. i can't attest to their
surrogates. i can attest to this surrogate. i'm not going to be a surrogate. but it's -- >> we got a lot of tough decisions to make. that's all i really care about besides i know who i'd like to win. but the more important thing for america is that we know what the heck we're deciding on and we make a pretty good decision. >> as for the candidates themselves clinton and bush traded jabs over bush's recent remarks about people needing to work longer hours. clinton tweeted, "anyone who believes americans aren't working hard enough hasn't met enough american workers" so which jeb bush reflied, anyone who discounts 6 had the 5 million people stuck in part time work and seeking full time jobs has not listened to working americans. this stems from comments jeb bush made during a it issitdown on wednesday. here's what he said in full context. >> my aspiration for the country and i believe we can achieve it
is 4% growth as far as i can see. which means we have to be a lot more productive participation has to rise from all time modern lows. means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families. that's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in. under this administration, they have created rules that make it harder for people to work. this overtime rule is going to end up creating not more opportunities, higher income for people. people are going to end up working less. obamacare forced people to businesses to hire people for 30 hours rather than 40 hours. nancy pelosi and barack obama and hillary clinton think that's great because they can pursue their dreams. i think people want to work harder and have more money in their own pockets and not be dependent upon government. >> they jumped on this as a perceived gaffe. he hopes employers will offer longer hours to workers.
>> yeah. i mean having watched several times, it's -- i feel like that's the proper conclusion here. that what he's talking about is the people who have temporary jobs but wish they had full time jobs which the bureau of labor statistics put at $6.5 million. i think some of the other things he said are problematic, for instance, that the small businessman date and the affordable care act is causing temporary workers. there is not much evidence out there to suggest that that's the case. and, you know i do think he opened himself up to additional questions not on the initial statement but, for instance on the overtime rule. what the obama administration did was they simply raised the threshold of salary over which you can earn overtime. would he like to lower the threshold? would he like to get rid of it entirely? that's the question that you know, his comments raise. and this is actually more subinstantive debate than just sort of quibbling over whether or not his comments were in the right context and hopefully the campaigns will end up having that substantive debate.
>> chuck todd, we did get see hillary clinton and jeb bush going directly at each other. >> we did. and i think sam is right. the larger thing that you discover here is that they have two different philosophies on sort of what is the -- what is the major problem for middle class america? is it wage stagnation or is it this issue of you know not having steady work not getting enough hours to earn the money that you want? so i think that -- there is sortd of two different ways of looking at this challenge on the middle class squeeze. i think some would say it's a little bit of both. but, look i it this larger -- the sort of the petty part of this for jeb bush this is sort of a gaffe equivalent to when president obama said you didn't build that and republicans jumped on it and in context it was perfectly clear what the president was ininferring.
>> if you're working 25 30 hours a week this wasn't a gaffe. there is jeb bush speaking the truth about the obama economy. this is an opportunity, the clinton campaign will rule the day they raised the issue of the impact of obamacare on small businesses in america. they're the engine of economic recovery. jeb bush was handed a gift by the clinton campaign. and he's going to have an opportunity now to explain what he meant. no one in america who isn't working -- underemployment in america is we don't talk about it enough. we focus on unemployment. underemployment is a real problem. when you travel to the states where jeb bush spends most of his time it's on people's minds. it may look like a little -- it was a cheap shot from the clinton campaign but a gift to jeb bush. i think he's done a good job starting a conversation when the debate comes out, jeb bush wins. >> that was the point he made in that tweet, too. >> all right. unless you're nicole wallace or mark halperin it's difficult to get on the "new york times" best seller list. it may be impossible for ted cruz. "the new york times" informed
harper collins this week they'll not include the texas republican's new biography on the best seller's list. despite the fact that book has sold more copies in the first week than all but two of the other best selling titles. a spokesperson for the times said the paper is not counting many of the books sales because of evidence of "strategic bulk purchases." let's turn you to as a guy that sells more books than anyone at this table. what is the rule on this? >> the times changed the way they do the list in the past because some political people a lot of political people buy bulk books to give away to supporters, not just because they want to get on the best seller list because they want to spread their message with the book and they buy books and give them to donors. so in this case you know it's a tough call. what should the best seller list represent? pure book sales by regular people or just number of books sold. >> and this is just "new york times." he is on the usa today and a bunch of other best sellers. >> making "the new york times"
best seller list is the highlight of my professional life. so, you know we like to attack "the new york times" as republicans but being on that list is just glory. >> mitt romney got to number one on the wlis a lot of bulk sales. >> so what is different here then? >> they changed the way they do it. >> i didn't think that counted. and i don't think they count amazon sales either do they? >> no. >> they used to count bulk sales. they would designate there are a the love bulk sales. now if your sales are driven by bulk, they're not going to count it. they want to measure, you know pure sales by individual consumers. >> so they're not making a case of ted cruz. this is an actual rule. >> the way they changed the way the law s. >> it can be a little rigged. you have to be distributed to small and independent book stores. >> when did they change the rule? >> i don't know. >> very, very recently. >> i don't think they changed it for ted cruz. senator cruz's success as a candidate and as an author will not hinge on the best seller
list. >> there are a lot of republicans that make "the new york times" top. zbh zbh >> yeah. >> i think there are no partisan ship. there. >> bill o'reilly. >> that's a good point. >> now you want to read that stuff. >> bill o'reilly and lots of republicans are on the list. >> there is not a secret scheme to bar conservatives from the list. >> presidential candidate martin o'malley is catching a little flack for citing a news website in a policy paper he released on funnel financial regulations. it referenced a daily current story about former u.s. attorney general eric holder taking a $77 million job with j.p. morgan chase. he wrote about him being j.p. morgan's chief compliance officer outlining responsibilities like fetching morning coffee and breakfast
orders for jamie sanders wlachlt is going on here? >> the two things here. one is the daily current is so unfunny, so bad at their job that people actually take them seriously. i don't blem them. i blame the daily current. >> what beef do you have with the daily currant? >> i may or may not have fallen as the same thing the o'malley campaign did once upon a time. i think we're obscuring something here when is the o'malley white paper. it was, you know very very vehemently anti-wall street. he staking out a turf that is occupied by maybe elizabeth wore warren and a few others. i feel bad in a way for the person who put that footnote together. >> you mean governor o'malley didn't put it together him snefl. >> maybe he was like on a word document late into the night, you know, got a little tired. >> cutting, pasting, googling. >> we've been seeing with hillary and sanders.
i think o'malley just likes being mentioned. i doesn't matter. >> he'll take it. >> he's happy they bring it up. i mean come on. >> he'll take it. >> chuck, what do you got planned for "meet the press" on sunday? >> a lot will depend on what happens with our friends in vienna and iran and whether it happens or not. but also we're going to do a unique look at mr. trump in his own words. and nothing else. i'll leave it at that. >> okay. >> must-watch tv. >> i set the dvr as you speak there. chuck, we'll see you on sunday morning. still ahead, the director of the fbi is warning of a growing technology that lets tariffs hide their online communication. and troubling new details about one of the largest data breeches in u.s. history. why it likely affected you or at least someone you know.
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attack and kill americans around the fourth of july holiday. more than 10 people were arrested in the last month as officials warned of isis inspired terror threats. as nbc's pete williams reports, new technology is making it harder to track terror suspects online. >> reporter: the fbi says all were communicating with isis figures overseas responding to social media messages advocating violence blasted out to cell phones. >> there is a device almost a devil on their shoulder all day long saying kill kill kill kill. >> reporter: the fbi says isis directs those who respond to the tweets to use applications like what'sapp and threema that incrypt a message as soon as it is sent and don't unscramble it until it is received. the company handling the message can't read it either even when the government comes with a court order. >> our job is to look at a hay stack the size of this country for need thalz are increasingly invisible to us. >> reporter: but many internet security experts say what the fbi wants, some way for the
companies to capture and hand over the data is a bad idea. >> to all of a sudden say all u.s. companies have to design their systems in a different way in a way that is fundamentally less secure and gives the u.s. government access special access, is going to hurt u.s. companies in the global marketplace. >> joining us now is the former executive assistant director of the fbi for cyber crimes, shawn henry. good to have you with us this morning. >> good to be here. >> you were in the fbi for 24 years. you were chasing this stuff. feels like it changes day to day, week to week. describe a little bit more about how serious and how difficult this new stuff is to track. >> so what director is talking about is these jihadist that's are receiving the messages constantly through social media. facebook twitter, et cetera. really essentially people reaching from across the ocean into people's bedrooms and living rooms, barrage of messages to kill americans. the issue now is that when the fbi has been able with a court order to intercept certain
communications when they've identified somebody as a potential terrorist and be able to go out and disrupt them like we saw recently in the last few weeks, when the messages are now incrypted, they lose complete visibility. they are completely dark in this area. they're not able to track the terrorists. >> so what is preventing the fbi from intercepting these inscripted messages right now? it is technology or the law here or civil liberties? >> so it's not really a civil liberties issue. the fbi using a court order this go to a judge, they have probable cause a reason to believe that somebody is involved in a terrorist act, the court allows them to intercept communications. even with the court order, the technology precludes them from intercepting those communications because those communications are completely dark. can you not get into them with that incription. >> how is it that they're technology supersedes our ability and our technology? >> the way incription is laid out, you cannot break that without a lot of computing
processing power over many many many years. technology doesn't allow for it to be decrypted. >> are the technology companies good partners to the fbi? are they doing everything they can do to help flag and turn over jihadists using the internet? >> i think that technology companies certainly where they see some public concerns and safety, they do work with -- >> are they pro active though? >> i think technology companies have heard from privacy and civil liberties people who have concerns about what does this really mean? i don't know if the average american understands the totality of all of this and what the real risks are. i think where we are right now is we're in a paradigm shift. and there is a balance between privacy and security. you will never have 100% of both. i think the american public needs to decide if we believe that the risk is so high that we may be harmed weapons of mass destruction, et cetera are we willing to forego some privacy. >> if you were talk together people running for president and
get an idea if they understood the issues, what question would ask you them? >> if they understand what the risk is. people i know have come into government with certain philosophies about the way things have been done after they read and see totality of the risks are, what their capabilities are tactics, techniques access to certain weapons, their philosophies have changed to err more on the side of caution an protecting the citizens when they understand the totality of the risk. >> we have staggering news yesterday out of the office of personnel management. we heard the personal information of 4.2 million federal employees had been breeched. now yesterday we learned about 21.5 million more people had their data accessed from the outside by hackers. how does something like that happen and who do you suspect is behind it? >> well the unfortunately we're not able. again, going back to technology. we're not able to prevent all of these attacks, unfortunately. in that particular case, had the data been incrypted, it would have been useless to whom ever had taken it n this case it
appears to be china, the government's come out and said china although not necessarily attributed to the chinese government. i'm more concerned about the type of data stolen. it is not necessarily the volume. we're talking about the most sensitive information from people who applied for u.s. government jobs. mental health records, information related to their secrets, personal secrets that they had to provide during the course of their background investigation. >> are we that vulnerable to that kind after tack? that seems like the kind of thing the united states government should be able to thwart. >> i would think that in this particular case that there was certain actors that could have been taken, having that dat yan crypted while at rest would have been one of the counter measures to protect against a breach. the companies, the government need to move from trying to prevent at tacks to trying to better detect them. there is technology available that will allow them to detect the attacks. while you want to build layers of defense to protect, that's not going to always work. we are vulnerable because networks are so large. >> scary stuff.
shawn, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up we're going toinlt deuce you to a pair of fraternal twins. they bear a striking resemblance to these two men who also were raised as fraternal twins. if you're confused how do you think they felt when they found out their brother is the identical twin to someone else? we'll sort through it all and explain it next on "morning joe." ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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aaahhhh! >> whoa! aaahhh! >> just get out of here! >> aaahhh! >> that's one way to set up the segment. that was a scene, mike, from the 1988 comedy "big business." >> classic comedy. >> come on, two sets of identical twins meet after being separated at birth. something like that now actually has happened in real life. it's the cover story, a remarkable story for this weekend's "new york times" magazine titled "the mixed up brothers of boeinga that abogata." it's a complicated story when you bring props. >> citrus props. >> yes. >> best you can set up this story. >> i tried to explain this story
to a lot of people. i found that visual aid is extremely helpful. >> i'm excited. >> what you have here is two sets of identical twins, right? very different parts of the country. one is from the far north, a rural region and another pair are from the capital city of bogata. what happens is accidental innocent mistake happens at the hospital and this is what happens. so you end up with two sets of identical twins that are now raised by mothers as fraternal twins. the families are told they have fraternal twins. it takes until they're 20 to find out -- to discover all of this. and that's where our story picks up xblchlt born in the same hospital on the same day? >> yes. a little more complicated than. that essentially, yes. a mix-up at the hospital which results in this happening. >> but here's the amazing turn in the story and it occurs when a woman leaves her office and goes to a butcher shop and -- >> so the fraternal twins who are raised in the country, way out in the middle of nowhere, rural, you have to even walk through like an hour in the mud to get there. no electricity, no plumbing.
so their names are wilbur and carlos. right? i'm sorry. wilbur and william. they move to the capital city and work in a butcher shop. now one of the -- a co-worker of one of the guys that lives in the city she goes to the butcher shop and she sees who she thinks stt guy she knows from like her office. he's the guy that is jorge from piping. she says what you are doing working at a butcher shop. she said i'm not jorge, i'm william. she shows pictures. they text each other back and forth pictures and start looking at each other's facebook profiles. on facebook this guy over here he sees on this guy's facebook profile this guy's fraternal twin looks exactly like his fraternal twin and their minds are blown and it's just like the clip. >> so when the meeting? when do they come face-to-face
for the first time? >> the night that they all -- that they figure it out, they quickly came together in a park in bogata. we actually have the clip up on our site. >> let's take a look. we have the clip. [ speaking spanish ] >> all right. so off of that is carlos the lemon or the lime? >> i knew you were going to xe many that. this is carlos right here. >> he's a sensitive guy. >> yeah. >> tell about what happens with
carlos. >> really the heart of this, there are four characters. heart of the story are the two brothers who were raised kind of not where they were supposed to be raised the two guys who missed out on what was supposed to be -- >> who were not raised by their true parents. >> and who were raising radically different environments. and so you have one character is quar lose carlos. he was supposed to be raised in the country in real poverty and instead he had a privileged childhood. and then you have william that was supposed to be raised in that environment but instead had a very very difficult upbringing. when he was 6 years old, he would travel five hours to buy groceries. spend the night overnight in the nearest big city and go back with his mother hacking sugar cane and carrying 50 pounds on his back. very, very different. so to my mind the heart of the story are the two brother that's got switched and who have to grapple with it. what is interesting is the brother who is raised in the city carlos you asked about, he has to wonder would i have
accomplished what i accomplished? he's an accountant? would i have accomplished -- would i be a professional if i didn't have the advantages i have. this is starting to daunt on him as our report der an amazing job with this story. she's with him and he's going to visit the rural town where he would have been from and realizing, you know the ways in which his own destiny is maybe not his own destiny. >> how about the moms? i'm a mother. you think you would know. >> the mother of the city twins is deceased. she died three years before they even found this out. the mother of the countryole thing. she doesn't, y of her biological son. but it's complicated. and this is all still pretty fresh. this has only known this for about a year and a half. and so they're still trying to process this and figure out what their new family will look like. >> and one other little anecdote before you leave us talk about how the woman in order tolem to prove to the lime you'll always be my brother. >> this is jorge.
so the two brothers jorge and wilbur who were raised where they were supposed to be raised and jorge to prove to his not real brother carlos that he loves him, he gets his face tattooed on his chest next to the tattoo of their dead mother much it's a fascinating story. it is an experiment. >> are they famous in colombia? >> yeah, they are. there is a news program there that brought this story initially to the attention of the twins researcher which is how we got on the study. they've been studied about how much -- how many of our traits have genetic origin? so they're being studied extensively. >> we only had time to scratch the surface. people have to read this story. it's incredible. it's the cover of this weekend's "new york times" magazine. jake, congratulations. thank you for bringing it to us. >> can we keep the fruit? >> you can keep the fruit. >> that's for us? >> thanks a lot, jake. we'll be right back. gy is now business strategy.
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up next from one amazing story to another, we have the never before told story how an average american became a double agent to stop russians spying here at home. that man joins us next on "morning joe." ♪♪ in the nation, we know how you feel about your car. so when coverage really counts you can count on nationwide. ♪ love ♪ because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love is strange ♪ just another way we put members first. join the nation. ♪ baby... ♪
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co-author of a new book that details hiincredible personal story, entitled "how to catch an a russian spy." good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's go to the beginning of the story. you call yourself an average american citizen going about your life. then what happens? >> this whole foray ended up by accident. after september 11th, i wanted to join the military. found a great program with the navy. applied, didn't get in was heartbroken. was told, if it's something you want to do do it again. you have to fluff up your resume. i had this weird connection with the fbi. i approached them and said if i help you, do you think you'll write me a letter of recommendation. i got into this almost like it was a summer internship. >> you walked into your locp fbi office and offered help? >> the background is almost 20 years ago, my parents started a small company here in new york that sold research material and
one day, a man walked in who turned out to be oh, a soviet intelligence officer who wanted to do business. after he left just to buy books, nothing classified nothing illegal. after he left two more came in it was the fbi. they said what did that guy want? my father he wanted to buy books. they said get him the books. if he comes, we'll be in touch. for 20 years, the soviets would come and then the russians. i had the access to the russians and to the fbi. it was a weird thing. i grew up with it. i thought, i might as well go to them and ask for a letter of recommendation. >> what did you sell to the fbi that -- what did you say you would do and what did you do? >> i came over took over the family business. i said my parents are retiring. i'm taking over the russian account, that's how i looked at it. if there's perhaps some way to move it forward, for 20 years,
it had been status quo. the russians would come in ask for books. they would never go beyond -- >> how many russians? >> one at a time but over the course of -- they would be here three, four years. i would say four or five would come. this went on pretty consistently. they would come maybe once every three months. >> they weren't just buying books. were you ever scared? >> growing up, no. the only time i was scared going into the operation was at one point, the russians said to me maybe you should come to mexico with us. i'm thinking free trip to mexico, this is great. the fbi said no no you can't leave. it's not a good idea. really, i don't know maybe it's a defishancy on my part i wasn't scare. i blocked it out. >> what was the operation? what were you getting from them telling the fbi you were getting from the russians? >> the russians were paying me right, so one of the big questions you figure out is my motivation was to get into the navy, but the russians had to
believe i was a spy, a real spy. they couldn't do that in any other way than meeting me in person and judging what my motivation was. they were constantly looking for signs of deception. it became about money. that was a constant thing i negotiated with the russians. you haven't lived until you have negotiated with a russian spy about how much to charge for treason. they were say whatever you think is right to be a real spy, go out and do it. at first i thought, this is great. then i realized they're looking at this if something goes wrong, i'm the one holding the bag. >> you're feeding the russians false information? >> it was real information. >> how did they pay you? >> cash. >> in suitcases? briefcases? >> white envelopes. >> what kind of information? >> all of it was open source. it might surprise people to know that open source information has a tremendous value to the russians. there's a saying your enemies know what information you want
but your friends know what information you need. by the russians coming in and saying we want information on this type of manufacturing process, they were admitting they had a deficiency in that manufacturing process. to the intelligence community, that's a huge benefit. the russians admitting they need information is showing their weakness. >> could the russians have googled this information? >> it's an obvious question. probably yes. >> lost a step. >> yeah you would think that would be the case. some of it was government reports and things that weren't just readily off the street. >> this by the way, this book has been purchased, the film rights now. you have demanded that brad pitt play you. i think that's a wise choice. >> gosling. age appropriate. >> the book is "how to catch a russian spy, the true story of an american civilian turned double agent." still ahead on "morning joe," the confederate flag will come down later today, in a matter of hours, in south
carolina. alana simmons, the granddaughter of one of the victims in the church massacre joins us with her reaction and to discuss her hate won't win campaign. initially, i wasn't going to say anything to the suspect. we were in the court and we were sitting down. and the judge gave us the opportunity to speak, and i asked my father and my brother. they were like no, we won't say anything. the first person who got up to say something, i can't remember the first words she uttered were, i forgive you.
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become a grandfather, you fall in love all over again. and that's what happened. we got, hillary and i have our granddaughter for three days. last night, my granddaughter, 9 1/2 months old, for the first time when i walked in her room she said oh, there's your grand dad, and she turned around and pointed at me. that was worth more than anything anybody had said sore done for me or paid to me or anything else in i don't know a month of sundays. everything you said is true. >> last night, my granddaughter spoke to me in mandarin. >> that's baby mila jenna's daughter and i believe it. good morning friday july 10th. with us mike barnicle is here. should we do the ovation thing? >> i have been thinking we're fortunate to have these multitalented people who come here and join us.
we have this vast studio audience, so why not, when you introduce them why not a round of applause for our guests? >> a lot up in the balcony, too. mike barnicle. >> thank you. >> you had members of the panel applaud. no one else is here. >> i always clap. >> you're a clapper. >> >> a clapper. makes me stressed when no one is clapping. >> try to fill the space? how about senior editor for huffington post sam stein. >> don't do that. >> former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace. >> why are we doing this? >> i don't know. >> host of politics nation president of the national action network, the reverend al sharpton is here. >> i prefer amens. >> you got it. editor of bloomberg politics mark halpern. >> mark that was choreographed.
where is he? >> right over there. >> over at the kids table. >> let's get to the news. the confederate flag is set to come down in south carolina in just a few hours. yesterday in front of a throng of press backed by dozens of politicians and with family members of those killed at mother emanuel church 23 days ago, governor nikki haley made good on her promise to remove the flag. joining us from columbia, south carolina, craig melvin. what's it going to be like down there today? >> you know it's going to be short. this ceremony, we're told is going to be similar to the same ceremony we saw in 2000 when a handful of citadel cadets took the flag then flying on the state house dome and moved it to the location behind me. they're in school right now so they're going to use a detail from the department of public safety, the same detail i'm told that was used at the funeral of
state senator clementa pinckney one of the nine folks killed in the church massacre. it's going to take less than ten minutes. the flag will come down they'll take it inside the state house and to a museum nearby. a lot of folks not surprised the flag is coming down. a lot of folks, though are stunned at the speed with which this has all happened. the south carolina general assembly, like a lot of local legislative bodies or state legislative bodies i should say, not known for acting swiftly. this was very different. as you mentioned, governor haley making good on the promise yesterday, signing the bill that was sent to her in just three days using nine different pens. one pen for each of the victims. take a look. take a listen. >> with that i am proud to say that the bill has been signed. i do want to also acknowledge
these nine pens are going to each of the nine families of the emanuel nine. >> again, the flag expected to come down shortly after 10:00 a.m. the flag pole itself also expected to be removed early this afternoon. however, i have to tell you, this misconception is out there that this is going to be it for the confederate battle flag in south carolina. the reality is i'm driving in from the airport last night and there's a bar on the left side of the highway about ten minutes out. flying the confederate battle flag proudly. a number of folks who have decided to use this as an opportunity to show that they aren't going to take this lying down. some folks still upset by all of this. >> and it will be moved via armored car to a serious multimillion dollar display at a museum there. craig, you're a guy from south carolina.
what's the emotional aspect of the story down there today? >> you know it's flown here for 50 years. there are not a lot of folks who thought it would ever come down. in fact i think most people willie had resigned themselves to the fact this was going to be it. because that 2000 debate, i covered, i was here. it was so gut wrenching for a lot of folks. it was deeply personal. rallies and protests on a regular basis. folks would be out here in front of the flag screaming at each other. weekends or middle of the day during the week. it was bizarre. so no one wanted to relive all that. and then with what happened in that church basement a few weeks ago, when a lot of folks took a step back and realized that the flag did not mean what a lot of folks perhaps thought it meant, then i think a lot of people here in south carolina all over this country, had one of these jesus moments and realized
okay, from this tragedy, there could come some good. and we'll see that good shortly after 10:00 a.m. >> all right, craig melvin. we'll be wuching along with you. thank you so much. reverend listening to craig and watching that piece, you can feel even hear the pull of history on both sides of this debate. and i'm wondering, we had an amazing confluence of events. you had the elements of the families forgiving. you had president obama giving arguably his best speech as a president, offering the concept of grace to the people there and to the country at large. where does it stand now in your mind? we still have a battle flag flying ten minutes outside the airport en route into downtown charleston, battle flags throughout the south, we know that. >> i think that people will express their views and express how they feel on their own
private property. and as long as we are a country. i think the real emotional and political statement of removing this from the state grounds is that we cannot any way, shape, or form act as though we condone it. taxpayers, the public pays for the state grounds. the protest has always been you can say what you want in your home and in your private institutions, but we're not going to pay to be offended by a symbol that represents slavery and lynching and the like. and a symbol that represents people that really fought against the united states government. and i think that's the victory. you know this fight since 2000 i have been involved in -- in 2004 when i ran for president, representative gilda hunter and senator joe neil who helped fight this fight, had me run against the flag. that was part of my campaign. and i was surprised at how
resistant a lot of people were saying, no this is about heritage. like that's a proud heritage. i think it's a great moment but it wouldn't have gotten there, i think, one, we have to be honest. this is in reaction to this massacre. and the way the families and the president handled it. this was a martin luther king moment, to rise above the pain and bring the nation to a higher moral place, really shamed a lot of people into saying we've got to do something here. had they acted in another way, i think it would have been us against them. i think they shamed the country by doing a king moment of taking it to a higher ground. >> let's move to politics now. former president bill clinton and george w. bush shared a stage in dallas last night. they were on the campus of southern methodist university for the graduation of their presidential leadership scholars. they discussed a range of topics including the possibility of another bush/clinton matchup in
2016. >> i know jeb, and i'm confident secretary hillary will you know elevate the discourse. i can't attest to their surrogates. i can attest to this surrogate. i'm not going tobe a surrogate. but it's -- >> we got a lot of tough decisions to make. that's all i really care about besides i know who i would like to win. but the more important thing for america is that we know what the heck we're deciding on and we make a pretty good decision. >> joint appearance between the two former presidents came after a day in which candidates clinton and bush traded jabs over bush's recent remarks about people needing to work longer hours. hillary clinton tweeted, quote, anyone who believes americans aren't working hard enough hasn't met enough american workers to which bush replied, anyone who discounts 6.5 million people stuck in part time work and seeking full time jobs hasn't listened to americans.
this comes from bush made to comments wednesday. here's what he said followed by his clarification later on. >> my aspiration for the country and i believe we could achieve it is 4% growth as far as the eye can see. we have to be more productive work force participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families. that's the only way we're going to get out of the rut we're in. >> under this administration they have created rules that make it harder for people to work. this overtime rule is going to end up creating not more opportunities, higher income for people. people are going to end up working less. obamacare has forced people businesses to hire people for 30 hours rather than 40 hours. nancy pelosi and barack obama and hillary clinton think that's great because now they're free to pursue their dreams things they want to do. i think people want to work harder to have more money in
their own pockets, not to be dependent on government. >> this quote, work longer hours tempest, to me as i watch the full quote and anyone can go online and listen to it he says employers need to provide more hours. >> i hate these things on both sides. i think the clinton campaign is going to rue having done this because she's going to say some things that are sloppy or careless or imprecise and republicans are going to jump all over them. it diminishes our politics and press, with all due respect to this frahm and others talking about it plays into this. we know what jeb bush meant. it wasn't a gaffe. he spoke slightly lyly imprecisely. they should focus on real differences and thought the made-up things. >> there's a reason we played the full context, so people could judge for themselves. >> this is great for jeb bush. hillary clinton wants to have a debate about the effect of underemployment from obamacare, if i were the jeb bush campaign i say bring it on.
that's one of the most devastating consequences for small businesses in america. if jeb bush can be their voice, it is the engine of recovery in america, and it's the sector of the economy where it's not necessarily unemployment but underemployment. if jeb can be their champion it is obviously where his heart is at a policy level, which is where everything starts for jeb, the policy argument but the politics of that are superb for jeb bush. >> that twitter back and forth was some of the first direct hand to hand combat. >> political discourse. i happened to agree that the comment was taken out of context. it's very clear that he was talking about underemployment and part time workers there, at least as i read it. and the clarification makes the case. i agree with mark that it's kind of sill ay to take the comments and run with them as political football. i think the effects of the employer mandate in the health
care law have been overstated. employers haven't actually been -- >> that was the response she should have made that was the debate then. >> i also think saying you're going to have 4% growth as aspirational as that may be is not a sound policy. he's just saying i'm going to have 4% growth. >> that's why you need to have the debate because he needs to outline how you're going to get us to 4% growth and the debate about whether or not there has been, and i agree with you, i think it's overstated with obamacare has or has not done in terms of the underemployment, but let's debate that out. a bernie sanders/bush debate or a hillary debate with bush or walker. i think they lose it but i think we win it -- who? >> donald. >> i haven't been trumped. >> he'll come for you, too. coming for you. still ahead on "morning joe," the ticker tape parade for the u.s. women's soccer team is less than three hours away. why wait to celebrate the world
cup victory? megan rupinho will join us here on set. and still ahead, her grandfather was one of the victims in the charleston church massacre. alana simmons joins us to weigh in on south carolina's decision to remove the confederate flag and tell us about her hate won't win campaign. that's coming up. you pay your auto insurance premium every month on the dot. you're like the poster child for paying on time. and then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal... until your insurance company jacks up your rates. you freak out. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it?
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some of the morning papers. several american cities have seen a dramatic rise in homicides in the first half of 2015 after years of declining violent crime. murders are up 33% or more in baltimore, new orleans, and st. louis. homicides in chicago have climbed 19% with shootings up 21% so far this year. in all the cities the increase is disproportionately impacting
poor and predominantly black and latino neighborhoods. what do you make of the numbers? >> i'm absolutely outraged by them. i think when you look at chicago tomorrow they're burying a 7-year-old kid. 7-year-old. i talked to reverend acree last night about it when you have this kind of gun violence and yet there has been no real formula to deal with it and there's enough of it to go around from community activists to clergy all the way to government, i think this is something that indicts all of us. it is getting worse, not better. i think that just as much as we're outraged as we are, when police misconduct we must be outraged about the misconduct in the streets, including the gun laws. but people because guns are there, don't make you get up and shoot at a 7-year-old kid is dead. >> it's an entire -- i mean the fulcrum runs from one range to
another. in the case of the 7-year-old being buried in chicago, the 7-year-old's father, who was the intended target of that shooting, has been arrested multiple times. the justice system has never really dealt with him, never put him away where he ought to be put away. and the other aspect of it is if this ever occurred if shootings, multiple shootingsed occurred every weekend in new york boston if it ever occurred in a largely white neighborhood, the national guard could be in the streets. >> that's my point. i hear these stories from the police chief in chicago about the multiple arrests of the father. but if this guy was a gangster in another neighborhood you still wouldn't say the 7-year-old kid, oh, it's his father's fault. the fact that it's happening in certain communities and there's not an outrage is insulting and offensive. i think we've got to come to grips with our lives matter on all sides of this. because it wouldn't be tolerated
in other communities. >> taking your example of chicago where it's terrible and you wake up every morning with another story in the paper of how many people shot and killed. they have some of the strictest gun laws in the country. >> it's all of that it's some of the gun laws. but clearly, chicago, you deal with those guns that are brought in outside. i think father phleger started a lawsuit about that. you also have to deal with the inside culture. you have to deal with how the policing is in terms of how the community policing is or is not working. then there's enough, as i said blame to go around. and you've got to deal with the fact that there's not the outrage both in the community and outside. two years ago, i took an apartment there and we would go every week and try to work with it. and i think there's too many people blaming. you know the finger pointing. it's you, it's you.
you whatought to do more, rather than everybody coming together. i think at the 7-year-old's funeral, we have to stop the blame game and take blame that we're not doing enough. >> here's another story we can point fingers at. "new york times," more than 4 million syrians have fled their country's civil war with more than a million leaving in the past ten months according to new figures from the united nations. inside the country, an additional 7.6 million syrians have been displaced by the fighting now in its fifth year. a region filled with refugees. >> the longest and largest refugee crisis in modern history. entire generations of kids who aren't vaccinated or educations. >> those images look post apop liptic. >> turkey jordan and iraq. even iraq sustaining absorbing some of the 4 million refugees. >> a huge humanitarian crisis. i think we'll look back on this ten years from now and wonder
what the hell we were thinking. >> the united states government? >> international community. much like what happened with iran. hundreds of thousands of people displaced or died. i'm not saying this is going to identify a huge military component, but we'll say did we do all we could to help the people displaced. >> we didn't. we drew a red line and didn't enforce it and the syrian people know that and they're literally raising entire families, children with refugee camps with no school. that generation is ripe to be radicalized themselves. a terrible crisis that will become a global security crisis. >> for another generation. "washington post" pope francis was in bolivia for the second stop in his three-nation swing through latin american where he used some of his strongest language to date. he called out world leaders for their, quote, cowardice from defending the planet from exploitation. he also apologized for offenses
that happened in latin american in the colonial era. during the day, the pope at one point needed to change his vestments before mass. so what better place to do it than the local burger king? the fast food restaurant put up some white sheets in the windows to give the pontiff a little privacy while he changed. did he get the whopper or no? >> no but i did like what he said upon entering the burger king. he said to the manager, is it true that special orders don't upset you? then he put on the white tunic. >> i hope he ate something. don't go to a burger king and not eat anything. coming up on "morning joe," amy winehouse in her own words. a document that offers the in depth look at the singer's life and legacy. >> president obama and first lady michelle obama are supporting her hate won't win campaign. alana simmons joins us next on "morning joe."
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welcome back to "morning joe." mark halpern, reverend sharpton sam stein, all with us and sara eisen joins the table. in about 90 minutes, the confederate flag will come down at the south carolina state house. joining us now, we have alana simmons. she's the granddaughter of receive rnd daniel simmons, sr. who was killed at mother emanuel ame church in charleston. alana helped crate the hate
won't win social media campaign in the wake of the shooting which gained support from the president, the first lady and all sorts of americans. alana, this morning, the flag comes down. you and others have taught the nation, all of us a lesson in forgiveness by your comments in the wake of the tragedy at the church. can you talk about your feelings this morning as that flag comes down and all that you have endured and all that so many others have endured. >> this morning, myself and my family, we just feel very proud of the state of south carolina for taking the initiative to unify their state. >> i think one of the things we talked about earlier, alana, is this would not have happened not only because of the tragedy that was faced, many of us have been fighting this for years,
but the reaction from you and your family and the other families, set such a high moral tone and standard, i think it made it a climate that we have not seen since the days of dr. king. and i think that it is no small tribute to your grandfather that you all operated in the way he would have wanted you to operate, and that he taught and preached to his parishioners. >> i agree with that. my grandfather lived and loved. and the irony of the situation is that he died at the hands of hate. so we just wanted to make sure that his legacy and the legacy of the other victims was a legacy of love which is what they preach and which is what they believed. >> alana, sam stein here. first of all, congratulations on what's about to happen today, and condolences that it came at such a cost. i'm wondering what comes next for you after this and what comes next for your campaign? >> well we just launched our
website, hate won't win movement.com. and basically, what we're doing is continuing this conversation. the flag coming down is a lovely gesture. you know anything with gun control would be a lovely gesture. but we know that political gestures don't change the hearts of man. man changes the hearts of man. what we want is for society to go out and be the change that they wish to see. so we're challenging people to continue to go out, show love to people who are different, a lot of times we teach people, at least some of us say it every day, one nation under god indevisible, we're asking people to show an act of love for someone who is different, post that to your social media pages. we have seen the president indorse our cause.
with the t-shirt in his hand and we're offering t-shirts to everyone who wants to continue to get that image out, and those are for sale on the website. but our main thing is to continue to have society to go out and show love to those, especially those who are different and in particularly those who are empty. >> alana simmons, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. and now let's turn to another story. we have a huge story occurring this morning in charleston, south carolina, but we have every hour for the past several days sara greece who has finally submitted a deal european officials say they can work with and a major concession from greece calling for harsher austerity measures in exchange for 53.5 billion euro package. what occurs between now and sunday? >> this is it a key weekend for
greece. hopefully we'll know by the end of the weekend whether greece is doing enough to get a bailout from the cretteres, mainly the europeans and germans to stay in the euro. there's a big meeting on sunday between all of the european leaders, and if the financial ministers sign off on this latest proposal, the leaders will take tup, see whether they approve and see whether they can sign off on the bailout. the problem has been greece has not been willing to make enough cuts to the pension system to raise enough taxes. its budget cuts in return for cash from the europeans. that's really what's been the problem and what's been argued about for weeks and weeks and weeks. it does look like the greeks have blinked and brought a proposal that could work. >> a lot of political risk here because they ran against austerity and now in effect they're doing what they said they were opposed to? >> it's even worse than that because they ran on austerity.
then they called this referendum, a surprise referendum for the greek people to vote on this creditors proposal the people voted no and now they're bricking back to the table essentially what the greek people voted no on. so they're blinking. and i think the reason why is because they alexis tsipras, the prime minister the populist prime minister who won against austerity, does not want to be responsible for greece leaving the euro. the europeans have said we have plan b. we have a plan in place if you leave the euro. so he doesn't want to have to over see that because it would be devastating for the greek economy and the greek people. >> if that deal works, does it solve the problem or do they come back for more in the weeks and months. >> it solves the problem for a while because it gives greece enough money to pay back the dect and it should cover for the next few years. that's a big if. what we have seen before in this
entire greek drama in the last few years is it's enough to get a little life line but let's come back to the table in a few months. obviously, that could still happen. i think the europeans are worn out at this point by the politics and back and forth and they want to look at something to cover greece a few years. >> when do we find out? saturday or sunday? >> saturday we'll find out whether the finance ministers give the okay and sunday we'll find out whether the leaders give the okay. hopefully we'll come in monday morning with some sort of resolution. that's a big if. we haven't heard from the germans yet on this proposal. the french are always optimistic. they're hoping greece can stay in the euro. but a lot is going to dependent -- and look angela merkel has to go back to her constituents which are giving her a hard time about being too lenient with greece. >> still ahead on "morning joe," she's one of the key players for the u.s. women's soccer team megan rapinoe joins us here in the studio and she is great in more ways than just on the alth
lettic field. just hours before the team's big ticker tape -- that's ticker tape -- >> ticker. >> i was thinking of tip o'neal. >> we'll be right back. helped start over 1 million businesses. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom. ♪ ♪ ♪ it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank.
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do it all. on us. get your first month's payment plus five years wear and tear coverage. make the most of summer... with volvo. i know you know this. this is a remarkable group of women. i couldn't be more proud of them. they epitomize what it is to be a team. absolutely phenomenal. i want to take a second just to thank all the people behind the scenes on our staff that got this done and helped this group be successful. and most importantly, to every fan that had our back that believed in us. thank you so much. >> that was the head coach for the u.s. women's national soccer team, jill ellis, speaking tuesday in l.a. los angeles, and with us now, midfielder world cup champion megan rapinoe. we were just talking off camera
about how infectious those first, the hat trick, the three goals were to people who are not used to watching soccer or casual soccer fans. what was it like being there on the field with that team when that happened so suddenly so quickly in that game? >> it was surreal. that was part of the game plan. we wanted to get all over them and be aggressive at first. to score four goals in 20 minutes is a little bit much. especially in a final against such a good team. i think everyone was stunned. >> what happens to you mentally as an athlete when you're up 4-0. so quickly. was there any relaxation within you or on the sidelines, the other members of the team? >> i don't think so. i think it went the opposite way. it happened so quick and it was so surreal. it was hard to wrap your head around it. i think immediately we were like, okay we have to keep going. we have to keep being aggressive, keep playing. there was a moment at halftime where it was 4-1 when we went in for halftime, and i was like
we're going to win. >> i would have been paranoid they're going to come back and beat us. >> if we could put four on them they could put four on us. >> can i ask you about this picture, amazing, in the "new york post" and here you are trying to pop open the bottle of champagne. this must have been like a moment of pure joy. we do this in the newsroom after a good story. what was it like once you won and got to have the champagne celebration. >> it was brilliant to go back and have that intimate moment. only staff, only players in the locker room. to just do that because once we left the locker room it's everybody. it's our friends and family media, so that was just such a special moment to get everybody back in there. we were just like i can't believe it. we just won the world cup. >> i'm curious what you make of this whole gender pay in soccer issue. the fact your team took home $2
million. >> $1.8 million. >> and the u.s. men's team got eliminated in the first round and got $9 million, and the german team, which won, got $35 million. do you think we need to level the pay gap? >> i think so. i think it at least needs to come together a little more. we understand the men's world cup, the revenue is like $2 billion for that. the women's world cup is not making that, but we are making money. i think we need to kind of even that a little bit. i think this team especially we have been so successful and really pushed ourselves into that conversation. we're selling out big stadiums. we're about to have this victory tour and they're not going to be in 20,000-seat stadiums. they're going to be in stadiums that hold 50,000 and 60,000 people. for us, we have to bottle this but we have to stick together as a team and really fight for what we think we deserve. >> since you won what are some special things that have happened to you? >> oh, man, special things. i mean mr. president. he called us. that was an amazing moment.
vice president biden was at the game, one of the president's daughters was at the game. you know for me being able to celebrate with our friends and family, had a huge afterparty not just all of us that sacrifice on the field. they're in our lives and they sacrifice vicariously through us. to be able to celebrate with everyone like that has been amazing. and we're the first women's team have a ticker tape parade in new york city. >> i might be wrong but my sense of it was you were talking about the pay discrepancy. i think the growth of soccer in this country is more attributable to the women's soccer team, not only just what you accomplished over the weekend, but what you have accomplished in the course of playing in college, starting from high school. i think the growth of soccer in this country is more attributable to more what people like you and your team have been doing than the men's team. >> thank you i appreciate that. >> next question. >> we think so in a way as well.
for them they have done an amazing job, too. last year world cup, everyone was on fire for them us included. we wanted to keep that going. yeah, this team is special. this team has been dominant. >> more relatable. >> yeah and america loves winners. the last four finals we have gone gold silver gold gold and people love that. we keep winning. we keep getting better. there's access to us in different ways and so many different personalities on the team. >> question is what's wrong with the men, basically? >> more or less. >> we're kind of on the opposite spectrum. the women's team is trail blazers in terms of other women's programs and the men's team is still trying to catch up to the other men's teams around the world. >> megan, thank you for coming here and thank you for the gift you gave to america, you and your teammates, over the weekend. >> you're welcome. >> have fun at today's parade. next critics are giving a new documentary on amy winehouse rave reviews, but her family isn't pleased with the film. the late singer's first manager
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>> i'm not a girl trying to be a star. i'm just a girl that sings. >> that was a look at the new and highly acclaimed documentary "amy" on the late soul singer amy winehouse. joining us now, the director of the film and amy pfsz former manager and friend nick shimansky. you know renowned film critic david edelstein said people this summer should see, quote, amazing documentaries like "amy" which makes alternatively thrilling and depressing sense arguably the most soulful vocalist of the last quarter century. i have only seen clips of this but i was so reminded of janice
joplin and other -- amy winehouse was in her own right at a very young age, she became an iconic sort of singer. this is a tragic story. what drew you to it? >> i knew her music. i was a fan of her voice, but i guess a big part of it for me is i'm a londoner and she was a local girl. she was like someone down the road who became huge. i was kind of interested by why her life had to turn out the way it did. why did it pan out that way? i suppose i had lots of questions about, you know why she was on stage when she wasn't in a good way. that was part of my interest in making the film. >> when you're using up $16,000 a week in hard drugs, you're being enabled by those around you. you have to be, because you're using all the time. how much blame is there on her family, her boyfriend? >> to be honest i think the most important thing about the approach to the film is i don't think it blames anymore.
it's a very complex story. you know her family and friends loved her. she loved her family and friends. maybe some judgments weren't, you know some judgments weren't as strong as they could have been about helping her, but all in all, i think this film just shows you a real insight into her talent her career her life. >> did you see people try to help her? her parents, for example, hey, amy, knock it off? you need help. >> i think she had a lot of people that cared. but i think it all got very muddied, the fame came very very quick and very strong. and unfortunately, the timing of what happened to aimmy was offerawful. she got depressed, lost, in a bad crowd. started trying heavy drugs. then the fame came like a huge tidal wave. >> mike mentioned janice joplin. when i was watching the documentary, i was struck by sow much to me she's the millennial version of billy holiday in
terms of the tragicness of her life. it reminded me also of what we might think of the daddy issues she might have had. if you could talk a little bit about that. i know her father has now distanced himself from the documentary, but it seems clear there were unresolved issues going on for amy in terms of her relationship with her father. >> the important thing to say is the film a large portion of the film, is about the funny, intelligent, witty, amazing girl she is the artist. where does art come from? from someone trying to deal with pain trying to deal with issues. she wrote these amazing songs. she played a guitar. i don't want to just focus on the negative stuff. the film is really about rebalancing it. unfortunately, that's all people in the u.s. knew about her, that she was troubled. what you didn't know was the amazing kid she was before she was troubled. that's the enlightening part in the movie. then you realize all of us have issues. she had bulimia, depression other things which somehow she was controlling. as she became mega famous and a
worldwide star, that's when certain people came around certain people made decisions which maybe, when they all add up to one another, became this problem issue. which it got out of control. she couldn't control it. people around her maybe weren't experienced enough to control it. >> what role in amy winehouse's rockedship to success and then demize do all the now tools of social media play facebook twitter? >> that's what's different because she became famous with that song "rehab" when facebook youtube, camera phones wasn't around. in the '60s when you had a bad show, you read a magazine but now everyone has seen the performances and everyone can comment and feel clever about themselves that they can comment on someone with difficulties. that's the problem. >> did she read that stuff? >> yeah, that's what i have been told. sadly, amy by the end was reading this and commenting on it herself and engaging with it
and one of the saddest things is when her security guard said she had to look at old performances of herself to remember how good she was because she had forgotten. all of that got so muddy she forgot how good she was. >> "amy" is in theaters now. thanks for joining us. we'll be right back. em so different? did you hear that sound? of course you didn't. you're not using ge software like the rig on the right. it's listening and learning how to prevent equipment failures, predict maintenance needs, and avoid problems before they happen. you don't even need a cerebral cortex to understand which is better. now, two things that are exactly the same have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it.
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yeah. apparent apparently, they are already holding auditions for his replacement. we were able don't ask me how, to get ahold of the wolverine audition tapes. >> nick offerman. i'm the best there is at what i do. but what i do best isn't very nice. >> try that again? >> no. >> i am wolverine! >> larry king. stick around for more with the wolverine right after the break. >> you don't have to throw to commercial. you're the wolverine. >> i am the wolverine. >> the name is verine wolverine. >> we're good. >> name, please? >> betty white. what's this for? >> wolverine.
>> just curious, why me? is it because of this? >> i got to go with larry king. >> did pretty good. >> takes every audition. >> that's what i learned today, though larry king. what did you learn today? >> i learned today i got a very nice autograph from megan of the u.s. women's soccer team. she was gracious to do that. also learn eded greece is going into a deadline. investors are optimistic. >> i learned the secret to why you look so good at 97 years old is bananas. >> yeah potassium. they're good for you. what did you learn? >> transkrpgz surge of all five episodes shows the only two words that appeared in every episode, doughnut and trump. >> i'm not surprised by the latter. >> who's bringing the doughnuts?
>> ariana grande. >> and willie geist. >> right now, important, craig melvin is in charleston south carolina, with coverage about the flag coming down just an hour away from that. craig, take it away. we are live here in columbia, south carolina. first on "the rundown" this morning, history in the making as the confederate battle flag flies here for the last time. roughly an hour from now, the flag will be moved once and for all from the state house grounds in columbia where it has flown for more than five decades now. we are expecting a short, simple solemn ceremony. the governor promises that the flag will be removed, quote,